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Chicago Kansas City Gulf Highway - Seeking Info


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#1 thermactor

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 10:52 PM

Hello,

I recently bought a tin tacker sign for the Chicago Kansas City Gulf Highway. After a rather futile attempt at doing web research to find the route, I've decided to turn to you guys for some help. The basic route is apparent from Chicago to Kansas City, based on this info:

http://www.museum.st...0/maps/n-il.jpg
http://academic.mari...ional/ckcg.html

But, that doesn't explain the "Gulf" part, does it?

This does...
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Auto_trail

Galveston, TX... Interesting... Nowhere so far except for this site mentions that it may have gone to Galveston. It would definitely make sense, though.

Does anyone have any brochures, literature, or other printings from the CKCG? If anyone has any route info, pictures, or anything to share I would be very interested. I'd also like to know what dates the route existed / was maintained between. I've seen references to the year 1918, but I'd like to find a range.

Thanks!
Wes

#2 parsa9

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 03:07 AM

Oh, so you got that sign. I was watching that one. Any chance you could send a photo of it?

The road does not seem to appear in the 1925 Rand McNally auto trails atlas. My 1924 Official Illinois state auto trail map (made by Rand McNally) does show it, but two 1925 Iowa maps I have do not. I looked at my 1923 auto trail map of the US, and it shows the road only going from Chicago to Kansas City. I have no maps showing it going to the Gulf Coast. If someone has any pre 1925 Kansas or Texas auto trail maps, these could be consulted.



These are the cities as the maps indicate for the route:

Chicago
-- west, likely on Madison, but possibly on Lake
Oak Park
Forest Park
Maywood
-- seems to end up on St. Charles a bit to the north, likely in Maywood somewhere
Glen Ellyn (seems to be today's North Glen Ellyn)
-- Geneva Rd
West Chicago
-- Washington St
-- Joins the Lincoln Hwy (IL 38)
Geneva
Maple Park
Cortland
DeKalb
Malta
Creston
Rochelle
Ashton
Franklin Grove
Dixon
-- Hwy 2
Sterling
-- Lincolnway
Galt
-- Galt Rd
Como
-- Leaves Lincoln Hwy
-- Moline Rd
Lyndon
Erie
Hillsdale
Wake ?
-- Hwy 92
East Moline
Moline
Rock Island
-- Centenial Bridge
== Iowa ==
Davenport
-- evidently original US 6
West Liberty
-- US 6
Iowa City
-- likely Iowa 1 south
Washington
Brighton
Richland
-- ??
Ottumwa
-- likely Co Rd H41
Blakesburg
-- ?? possibly following the rail line all the way southwest
Centerville
-- likely Co Rd J46 or rail line
Seymour
== Missouri ==
Powersville
-- seems to be following the Chicago Milwaukee St Paul and Pacific
Harris
Galt
Chillicothe
Braymer
Polo
Lawson
Excelsior Springs
Liberty
Kansas City
---------------------



#3 thermactor

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 05:59 PM

Thank you Parsa9 for the detailed route information from Chicago to KC. I only wish I had some of those Rand McNally maps - I'll have to put them on my want list... I had seen the sign at a gas/oil show, and regretted not buying it. I got lucky and found it again on ebay, and got it for the same price as it was when I passed it up at the gas show. Talk about a lucky break!

I'd love to see any photos showing a sign like this in the background. Also, of course, pamphlets, brochures, and strip maps would be fantastic. Hopefully someone on the site can add to what was just posted with the continuation of the route from KC to Galveston.

Thanks!
Wes

Oh - here's the sign:




#4 Keep the Show on the Road!

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 07:28 PM

QUOTE (thermactor @ Dec 21 2009, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank you Parsa9 for the detailed route information from Chicago to KC. I only wish I had some of those Rand McNally maps - I'll have to put them on my want list... I had seen the sign at a gas/oil show, and regretted not buying it. I got lucky and found it again on ebay, and got it for the same price as it was when I passed it up at the gas show. Talk about a lucky break!

I'd love to see any photos showing a sign like this in the background. Also, of course, pamphlets, brochures, and strip maps would be fantastic. Hopefully someone on the site can add to what was just posted with the continuation of the route from KC to Galveston.

Thanks!
Wes

Oh - here's the sign:


Wes,

Wes,

That’s quite a nice item!

Parsa has looked at the most promising sources, but I have a few others, including a bit older Auto Trails and the Kansas based TIB (Tourist Information Bureau) maps and guides. The early 1920’s Automobile Blue Books also frequently identified a route by the auto trail name.

The 1920 TIB Guide identifies the CKCG route In Illinois, Missouri, and Kansas (but not in Oklahoma or Texas) and does provide some strip maps…..and if I unfold the bigger TIB state maps, it may show as well.

The 1916 TIB Guide doesn’t refer to any but the transcontinental routes

None of the 1923 -24 Auto Trails maps in the 1924 Rand McNally Commercial Atlas, list it.

I would be amazed if there is a guide book around for the route….but then I’m amazed that a sign still exists!

Since the route can be identified through Illinois, Missouri, and Kansas, I’ll look to see if I have anything at all that would track it further south.

Incidentally, I noted on the 1923-24 Oklahoma / Texas Auto Trails map a named route from Kansas City through Ft Scott to Galveston with a different name, but it might be related. It may have broken away from the original organization to give more attention to the southern (Oklahoma - Texas) section. Pure speculation!

I'll let you know what I find.

Dave

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#5 thermactor

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 09:46 PM

Thanks Dave!

I'm sorry to take so long to respond - was on vacation and then got rather busy with work afterward.

By chance, do you remember the name of the named trail from KC to Galveston?

I assume that if the trail is not in the 1916 TIB but is in the 1920, it was organized between those dates.

I'm definitely interested in anything that you come up with related to the route.

Thanks much!
Wes

#6 Keep the Show on the Road!

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 01:34 AM

QUOTE (thermactor @ Jan 26 2010, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Dave!

I'm sorry to take so long to respond - was on vacation and then got rather busy with work afterward.

By chance, do you remember the name of the named trail from KC to Galveston?

I assume that if the trail is not in the 1916 TIB but is in the 1920, it was organized between those dates.

I'm definitely interested in anything that you come up with related to the route.

Thanks much!
Wes


Wes,

I'll take a look and refresh my memory ASAP. I'll let you know what I find.

Dave

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#7 Keep the Show on the Road!

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE (thermactor @ Jan 26 2010, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Dave!

I'm sorry to take so long to respond - was on vacation and then got rather busy with work afterward.

By chance, do you remember the name of the named trail from KC to Galveston?

I assume that if the trail is not in the 1916 TIB but is in the 1920, it was organized between those dates.

I'm definitely interested in anything that you come up with related to the route.

Thanks much!
Wes



Wes

Let me tell you what I have determined, and then I’ll speculate a little.


Facts:

The C K C & G shows on the 1923 District 19 Rand McNally Auto Trails map in the 1924 Commercial Atlas. It shows coming into Kansas City from the north east, but it isn’t marked leaving Kansas City southward.

The adjacent district southward does not identify a C K C & G, so as far as Rand McNally was concerned in 1923-24, it didn’t go further south.

The 1920 TIB guide, published in Kansas, identifies the route as going south from Kansas City through Paola and into Ft Scott, but makes no mention of it further south.

The “ K T Trail” is identified in TIB as going through Kansas City (it started in Winnipeg) and terminating in Galveston.

The Jefferson Highway, which was contemporary with, and better known than the C K C & G also went via Kansas City and Ft Scott and reached the “gulf” at New Orleans.

Speculation:

It may be that the “Gulf” was like saying Salt Lake City and “West.” Gulf may have been “generic,” implying that there were multiple routes beyond KC or Ft Scott that would take you southward to the “Gulf.”

Or conceivably, if a route was published beyond Ft Scott it was something like, “Beyond Ft Scott, follow the K T Trail to Galveston.”. The incorporation of one auto trail in another wasn’t uncommon.

I admit I am skeptical that “Gulf” and Galveston are one and the same anyway. If they were, it would have been logical to simply call the route the Chicago, Kansas City and Galveston route, since they had already named two of the cities on the route. Furthermore, why isn't the right hand city on the sign Galveston, if that was the destination or terminus of the road?

Galveston certainly was one of the places where you might have reached the “Gulf,” but I doubt the route was ever blazed beyond Kansas City or at the most Ft Scott. But as I said, that’s speculation and subject to correction by anyone with better evidence from the period.


Hope that helps.

Dave

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#8 thermactor

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 09:38 PM

Dave,

Thanks very much for your research and insight - that helps a lot. I tend to agree with you that the term "Gulf" is rather generic, and I too am beginning to speculate in ways that agree with what you have surmised.

I really appreciate the info I've gotten from you guys, and will continue to do research too. If I learn anything further, I'll be sure to update this thread and post it here. Likewise, if anyone happens across any other information, this would be a great place to post and "preserve" it.

Thanks very much,
Wes

#9 thermactor

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 10:15 PM

I was doing a little more looking on this topic, and discovered, on Google Books, the April 1922 issue of "Highway Engineer and Contractor." On page 61, it lists "Highway and Road Associations" and shows the following entry for the CKC&G: "Chicago, Kansas City and Gulf Highway - President, Robert N. Carson, Iowa City, Ia.; Secretary, Harry W. Graham, Chillicothe, Mo. - Chicago, Ill., to Galveston, Tex."

Google Books shows an actual image of the page. It's also very interesting because it lists a large number of other named routes in the same manner.

Just another piece of the puzzle.

Wes

#10 Chris Rowland

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 09:06 AM

I just finished a trip where I noticed signs for Illinois 110 - or the "C-KC" highway. I saw them on I-74 between Galesburg and the Quad Cities. I thought it was strange because the signs didn't state "East" or "West", they simply had a little "CKC" at the top with the C in red and the KC in blue over a gray highway picture. My first thought was that maybe this stood for Chicago and Kansas City, and I guess I was right! I hadn't heard about this project before.

 

CKC110c.jpg

 

The routing is different from the CKCG highway on this thread, but I did find it fascinating that Illinois and Missouri are working together to create this "new" CKC auto trail and that they created a special logo and are using the same highway number for this "freeway".

 

I just wanted to share this because I found it somewhat fascinating and somewhat of an anomaly. Are other states doing anything like this?

 

Chris



#11 Keep the Show on the Road!

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 11:15 AM

Chris,

 

Made me want to say:

 

"The C-KC is dead, Long live the C-KC!" :rolleyes:

 

Thanks for sharing an interesting discovery!

 

 

Dave

 

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#12 DennyG

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:26 PM

That all seems rather bizarre though I might not really appreciate what's going on. It sounds like government agencies are simply signing some imaginary route for folks who want to drive directly from Chicago to Kansas City. Signing imaginary routes isn't particularly strange but I'm thinking that the practice usually involves roads/routes that used to be real (e.g. Historic Route 66, Historic National Road) or serve some recreational/tour purpose (e.g., Great River Road, Colonial Parkway). Are there other modern "named highways" intended to get folks from A to B that I'm just not aware of?



#13 mobilene

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:46 AM

All you ever wanted to know about it:

 

http://articles.chic...ity-resurfacing



#14 mga707

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 09:47 PM

I know this is not the site for Interstate Highway discussions, but I was wondering if anyone knows if the part of the CKC across northern Missouri, from Hannibal over to I35, that follows US36, is or will become an extension of I72 (which presently has it's western terminus at Hannibal). The Tribune article was just about the Illinois portion of the highway, and did not mention anything about the Missouri part.




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