27 replies to this topic

[32vld]

QUOTE (roadhound @ Mar 8 2009, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for filling in that gap Denny.

As it turned out I drove through Banta earlier today on my way home from a training class and now that the route west out of Banta is resolved, I am now wondering about the route between Mossdale and Banta.

Comparing the 1915 topo map of the area to Google Earth it would appear that the original route followed Manthey Road, is buried underneath I-5 and then W 11th St before turning right on what is now Grant Line Road towards Banta. On the topo it is a straight line from the crossing until it reaches Grant Line.

Once someone sparks your interest it is hard to resist if you're in the area, isn't it?
I plan on taking the Harley over to the Mossdale trestle and checking out the concrete roadway. I've been over there before but I wasn't as in tune to spotting old roads as I am now. Thanks for the help, and I'm going to pull up some of your old posts on the Altamont and such. I've been down Altamont Pass road quite a bit lately checking out clues of the past and the old Southern Pacific railroad bed that runs through there. I've been going over the Altamont (580) almost daily for eight years and never noticed the old SP tunnel that is just east of the Western Pacific bridge on the eastbound lanes. I believe this is the old 1938 alignment of U.S. 50.
If you're ever on Patterson Pass road check out the old stone walls if you haven't ever seen them. (37.69805555, -121.58916666)

Thanks again, Suey

 

 

I google mapped the long and lat and what I saw was not stone walls. Looked nothing as the stone walls alomg the roads in NY and New England.

 

It looks more as sudden drop offs in the erosion line making the appearance of the remains of stonewalls. Another reason is stone walls were made to mark off property lines so are placed near to the road.

 

Those "walls" appear to be set to far back from the road to be of any purpose. So that indicates they are not man made.

[32vld]

Suey,

Here is my grandfathers description of his trip over Beales Cut in 1896. You might get a kick out of it.

http://americanroadm...e...

Im with you on not planning a trip too carefully. And like Beamerchef (Ara), I usually avoid the tourist destinations. The best places are the surprises, usually in places you didnt plan to be!

I too enjoy the old roads between Redding and Medford. Lots of great places on the old route. Jervie Eastman (of Susanville) did a bunch of real photo post card shots in that area in the 40s and 50s. Many of his outtakes are on line at the UC Davis. Lots of opportunities for then and nows. Truly great stuff since you love history.

Dave

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

 

I remember that post. It was good to see the before and after photos of the cut, again.

[bbutko]

Hi all, been enjoying the discussion but wanted your opinions on some of the details. The attached photo is a Google map with the LHA routing (the purplish blue line) and the 1925 photo overlaid at 50% transparency.  Please comment on my assumptions and conclusions:

1) The LHA map locates the Mossdale "Y" intersection at upper right (at A). Based on a photo I've seen of the "Y" I would make the radius of each turn smaller, but more importantly, the 1925 overlay (itself an aerial photo) shows the "Y" at B. Is the LHA (and the rest of us) incorrectly assuming the "Y" survives at A when it was in fact destroyed by the Interstate? I would be tempted to think that the scale was off but the river and two bridges and the curve of Manthey Road otherwise all line up perfectly.

2) The LHA shows the Mossdale underpass at C based on pavement visible on the aerial view about 1/4-inch to the south (as does Rick's map with a red circle), but the overlay makes it look like the underpass was about 1/4-inch (about 80 feet) to the east.

3) The LHA map needs to add the original bridge location at D.

 

4) The photo in this discussion of the Manthey Road underpass taken looking north at E says the school would have been through the opening and to the right, but it appears that whether the "Y" was at A or B, the underpass is the 1920s bypass of the "Y" and the school would NOT have been just on the far side.

 

5) I saw that a local history book reported the Mossdale School had been moved to the Grace Church but did not see anything at the church site on Google street or aerial views that looked like the tall skinny school in a vintage photo of the "Y." http://goo.gl/maps/pm4Ll

 

Brian

 

[bbutko]

 Mossdale combo.jpg   183.11K   42 downloads

[Keep the Show on the Road!]

Hi Brian,

 

I didn't want you to conclude that no one is trying to answer your questions.  I have only looked at the the first one, and it is definitely interesting.  I am however squinting at the photo overlay, so I am going to see if the USGS has some pre freeway aerial photos for that area.  And I find that changing the color of an aerial image before doing a Google Earth overlay (and perhaps increasing the photo contrast or applying some HDR tonemapping) makes it easier to interpret.

 

 

None the less, it is impressive to even see a 1925 aerial!  It sure looks like you are on to something! Great stuff!

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

[roadhound]

You got me stumped.

 

The only definitive information that I can provide at the moment is that I once lived 4 blocks away from the street view link in #5. It was the first apartment my wife and I lived in after getting married, 225 W. Eaton #219.

[Keep the Show on the Road!]

Brian, I have to hit the sack, but re question 1; can't you just measure the distance from the river, or the turn back to the Y using the USGS 1915 map and modern Google Earth? Dave k Keep the Show on the Road

[Keep the Show on the Road!]

Brian,

 

Regarding Question 1.

 

If one uses the 1915 USGS Lathrop topo, then you will conclude that the 1915 intersection Y (point is now under the freeway, as shown on this animation, using the USGS map.

 

The 1952 USGS shows the same Y, without any Y at point A. Therefore the Y at point A was built after 1952.

 

 

So you were right, the original Y is now under the freeway. Your theory is confirmed by “independent” “authority”

 

Now I'll look at the second question.

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!